amin
Aug 18, 10:28 PM
Obviously, inherently the iMac design is inferior to the Mac Pro/Powermac.
It may be obvious, but based on your earlier statement that a Conroe iMac would be "able to crunch through" apps faster than a Mac Pro, the obvious seemed worth identifying.
But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
*snip*
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
*snip*
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
It may be obvious, but based on your earlier statement that a Conroe iMac would be "able to crunch through" apps faster than a Mac Pro, the obvious seemed worth identifying.
But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
*snip*
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
*snip*
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
LarryB08
Apr 8, 08:09 AM
what you(Best Buy) did was take $100 from the customer and lock them in from buying anywere else!
Yeah, Best Buy took that $100 alright...they held a gun to each customer's head and told them flat out - "we have no more in stock so you better pay us $100 or else"
If you believe this was actually some sort of BB ruse, and still paid your money, then you deserve what you get. Start taking responsibility for your own actions for a change.
Yeah, Best Buy took that $100 alright...they held a gun to each customer's head and told them flat out - "we have no more in stock so you better pay us $100 or else"
If you believe this was actually some sort of BB ruse, and still paid your money, then you deserve what you get. Start taking responsibility for your own actions for a change.
freeny
Aug 7, 04:05 PM
Guess we now know what this was all about now.. (Web Clip)
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=151828&highlight=safari+widget
Out of all the predictions I think I was the closest (post #29):cool:
perhaps this button will produce a widget for the page you have open? sort of like having your favorite sites in your dashboard? you wont need to open safari to check your sites or even wait for someone to create a widget for the site. safari will author its own widgets.
Even better would be the ability to frame just the part of the site you want to see like a weather bar or team score using a cmd+shft+4 like command..... any takers?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=151828&highlight=safari+widget
Out of all the predictions I think I was the closest (post #29):cool:
perhaps this button will produce a widget for the page you have open? sort of like having your favorite sites in your dashboard? you wont need to open safari to check your sites or even wait for someone to create a widget for the site. safari will author its own widgets.
Even better would be the ability to frame just the part of the site you want to see like a weather bar or team score using a cmd+shft+4 like command..... any takers?
superfula
Apr 6, 10:53 AM
Since you have no clue how the sandy bridge airs will perform, I'll take your statement as FUD.
Of course we do. The integrated graphics card will perform just as poorly as every other Sandy Bridge processor because it's the same.
Of course we do. The integrated graphics card will perform just as poorly as every other Sandy Bridge processor because it's the same.
brenden
Apr 8, 07:46 AM
Not surprised. Best buy has always been a super shady retailer with subpar employees. Sadly its the easiest place to buy electronics other than ordering online.
Peace
Aug 5, 04:55 PM
Can someone confirm my calculations?
The keynote will start 8PM UK time?
6PM London time..
Use the dashboard clock widget if you're in the UK and open a clock then set it to Cupertino..
The keynote will start 8PM UK time?
6PM London time..
Use the dashboard clock widget if you're in the UK and open a clock then set it to Cupertino..
reflex
Sep 19, 07:51 AM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'd of thought buying the latest and fastest computer every year would be the first thing a 'pro-user' would do with his money.
I can't speak for everyone, but there are a few considerations apart from speed:
- the available funds
- the ability to deduct the purchase from taxes
- having to reinstall everything on the new computer
Speed is nice, but when a two year old laptop is mostly fast enough (in my case), then why buy a new one after only a year?
I usually buy a new laptop about every two years. This is a relatively nice trade off between my desire to have the latest of everything and actually getting any work done.
I can't speak for everyone, but there are a few considerations apart from speed:
- the available funds
- the ability to deduct the purchase from taxes
- having to reinstall everything on the new computer
Speed is nice, but when a two year old laptop is mostly fast enough (in my case), then why buy a new one after only a year?
I usually buy a new laptop about every two years. This is a relatively nice trade off between my desire to have the latest of everything and actually getting any work done.
azentropy
Mar 31, 03:16 PM
Honeycomb is still not released as far as I know. When it's released and the code is not available, then we can talk.
The Motorola Xoom ships with Honeycomb. It has been released. You miss that???
The Motorola Xoom ships with Honeycomb. It has been released. You miss that???
realitymonkey
Apr 6, 07:14 AM
It all depends on what you do for a living I suppose. I can see wedding video makers would want to deliver blu-ray.
I don�t do weddings, but I would at least like to have the option to easily make a Blu-Ray longer than 20min . Now every time we give people a HD format of what we have done, we usually end up with an Apple TV HD file and that�s a very compressed HD file IMHO.
Yup I guess as we deliver full "uncompressed" HD via HDCAM SR mainly our needs a rather different. To me Blu-ray is the worst of all formats fairly big cumbersome files that are still to compressed to be useful to any one professionally, and not small enough to simply chuck around on thumb drives.....
I don�t do weddings, but I would at least like to have the option to easily make a Blu-Ray longer than 20min . Now every time we give people a HD format of what we have done, we usually end up with an Apple TV HD file and that�s a very compressed HD file IMHO.
Yup I guess as we deliver full "uncompressed" HD via HDCAM SR mainly our needs a rather different. To me Blu-ray is the worst of all formats fairly big cumbersome files that are still to compressed to be useful to any one professionally, and not small enough to simply chuck around on thumb drives.....
SevenInchScrew
Dec 14, 12:25 AM
Click for HUGE-size
http://imgur.com/q3woJ.jpg
http://imgur.com/9hFqL.jpg
http://imgur.com/4RFKo.jpg
http://imgur.com/mBrb3.jpg
http://imgur.com/duAaM.jpg
http://imgur.com/8yROf.jpg
http://imgur.com/pWuXW.jpg
http://imgur.com/q3woJ.jpg
http://imgur.com/9hFqL.jpg
http://imgur.com/4RFKo.jpg
http://imgur.com/mBrb3.jpg
http://imgur.com/duAaM.jpg
http://imgur.com/8yROf.jpg
http://imgur.com/pWuXW.jpg
janstett
Sep 15, 07:48 AM
The Today show is an embarrassment. The US major tv networks do not have any real morning news programs. How to trim your dog's ears and an inside look into American Idol contestants is NOT NEWS. It is an entertainment talk show.
The network morning "news" shows have always been fluff. What's worse is that the so-called "hard news" shows are just as bad, and not just in the morning -- CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News all run mindless fluff instead of news. And don't get me started with MSNBC airing Eye-Puss in the Morning.
The network morning "news" shows have always been fluff. What's worse is that the so-called "hard news" shows are just as bad, and not just in the morning -- CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News all run mindless fluff instead of news. And don't get me started with MSNBC airing Eye-Puss in the Morning.
whatever
Jul 20, 07:37 PM
yeah, what he said. Apple does not have to distinguish powermacs from servers with processor speeds. People (businesses) who need servers are not going to buy powermacs to do the job even if they are a little bit faster or cheaper; they are going to buy real rack-mounted servers.
Now you're not thinking like a competitive company that needs to continue to make money.
Sun is on the ropes and Apple now has a chance to soar in and take a lot of business from them.
Now you're not thinking like a competitive company that needs to continue to make money.
Sun is on the ropes and Apple now has a chance to soar in and take a lot of business from them.
SevenInchScrew
Dec 11, 12:19 PM
Click to HUGE-size
http://imgur.com/ryCe3.jpg
http://imgur.com/Wtf3t.jpg
http://imgur.com/pFSJf.jpg
http://imgur.com/Tq0Qs.jpg
http://imgur.com/XHCNW.jpg
http://imgur.com/NFVE1.jpg
http://imgur.com/ryCe3.jpg
http://imgur.com/Wtf3t.jpg
http://imgur.com/pFSJf.jpg
http://imgur.com/Tq0Qs.jpg
http://imgur.com/XHCNW.jpg
http://imgur.com/NFVE1.jpg
dampfnudel
Mar 31, 09:44 PM
Well, it's about time Google did this.
Half Glass
Aug 18, 11:29 PM
"Quad Core Ready" - that would make a nice bullet on a software package wouldn't it?
Better yet: "MultiCore Ready".
So the webpages at Apple.com suggest the improvement of Xeon vs Quad G5 in FCP of 1.3- 1.4 times as fast as the Quad G5.
However, notice that it is footnoted that these results were obtained using a Beta version of FCP:
Megan Fox: Armani Code
Megan+fox+armani+add
Megan Fox for Armani 2010
Megan Fox for Armani Campaign-
Better yet: "MultiCore Ready".
So the webpages at Apple.com suggest the improvement of Xeon vs Quad G5 in FCP of 1.3- 1.4 times as fast as the Quad G5.
However, notice that it is footnoted that these results were obtained using a Beta version of FCP:
gnasher729
Jul 20, 01:26 PM
But as some already pointed out, many applications can't use multiple cores, therefore you won't get any performance improvements with multi cores.
True, but many applications are fast enough on a single core, and applications that are not fast enough _will_ be modified when multiple processors are common.
True, but many applications are fast enough on a single core, and applications that are not fast enough _will_ be modified when multiple processors are common.
The-Pro
Apr 6, 11:57 AM
well the CPU in the 13" macbook air has a 1066 Mhz frontside bus, only the 11" has a 800 Mhz FSB, so that quote thing was wrong :D
leekohler
Feb 28, 09:45 PM
Correct I have no idea what causes homosexuality, neither do scientists.
I wanted to know what he expected from me, he doesn't necessarily have to know the cause(s). I don't remember saying you could not live with the person you love. Also one can not infer what "that" means from your paragraph.
I seem to recall you agreeing with this post:
A same-sex attracted person is living a "gay lifestyle" when he or she dates people of the same sex, "marries" people of the same sex, has same-sex sex, or does any combination of these things. I think that if same-sex attracted people are going to live together, they need to do that as though they were siblings, not as sex partners. In my opinion, they should have purely platonic, nonsexual relationships with one another.
Heterosexual couples need to reserve sex for opposite-sex monogamous marriage. If I had a girlfriend, I might kiss her. But I wouldn't do that to deliberately arouse either of us. If either of us felt tempted to have sex with each other, the kissing would stop right away. I know of a woman who gave an excellent answer when men asked her why saved sex for marriage. She said, "I"m worth waiting for." She lived by her Catholic convictions, and she wouldn't risk letting any man use her as a mere object, as a mere tool.
Some may say, "I have sex with my girlfriend to show her that I love her." If I had a girlfriend, I would hope I would love her enough to protect her from the physical and psychological risks that come with non-marital sex. The best way for me to do that is for my hypothetical girlfriend and me to be celibate before marriage.
Sacramentally same-sex "marriage" isn't marriage. Neither is merely civil marriage of any sort. If I understand what the Catholic Church's teachings about marriage merely civil, it teaches non-sacramental marriage, whether same-sex or opposite-sex, is legal fornication.
And by "living with" I mean having sex and having a family as well.
I wanted to know what he expected from me, he doesn't necessarily have to know the cause(s). I don't remember saying you could not live with the person you love. Also one can not infer what "that" means from your paragraph.
I seem to recall you agreeing with this post:
A same-sex attracted person is living a "gay lifestyle" when he or she dates people of the same sex, "marries" people of the same sex, has same-sex sex, or does any combination of these things. I think that if same-sex attracted people are going to live together, they need to do that as though they were siblings, not as sex partners. In my opinion, they should have purely platonic, nonsexual relationships with one another.
Heterosexual couples need to reserve sex for opposite-sex monogamous marriage. If I had a girlfriend, I might kiss her. But I wouldn't do that to deliberately arouse either of us. If either of us felt tempted to have sex with each other, the kissing would stop right away. I know of a woman who gave an excellent answer when men asked her why saved sex for marriage. She said, "I"m worth waiting for." She lived by her Catholic convictions, and she wouldn't risk letting any man use her as a mere object, as a mere tool.
Some may say, "I have sex with my girlfriend to show her that I love her." If I had a girlfriend, I would hope I would love her enough to protect her from the physical and psychological risks that come with non-marital sex. The best way for me to do that is for my hypothetical girlfriend and me to be celibate before marriage.
Sacramentally same-sex "marriage" isn't marriage. Neither is merely civil marriage of any sort. If I understand what the Catholic Church's teachings about marriage merely civil, it teaches non-sacramental marriage, whether same-sex or opposite-sex, is legal fornication.
And by "living with" I mean having sex and having a family as well.
ssk2
Mar 22, 03:39 PM
Why are you comparing the Playbook that is coming out this summer to iOS 4? Chances are it will be competing with iOS 5. If you want to be fair and all.
Oh FFS... Ok, yes, if we're being pedantic, I'll wait until I try both iOS 5 and the Playbook before deciding.
Oh FFS... Ok, yes, if we're being pedantic, I'll wait until I try both iOS 5 and the Playbook before deciding.
citizenzen
Apr 28, 04:05 PM
If liberals would stop 'crying wolf' ('claiming racism') at every corner, we might actually take them seriously and help out when there's actual evidence.
Likewise, if conservatives would not turn a blind-eye to obviously something that is racially motivated, we might actually take them seriously.
If there's not enough evidence that the birth certificate issue is racially motivated, then I can't imagine what it would require for something to meet standard.
Likewise, if conservatives would not turn a blind-eye to obviously something that is racially motivated, we might actually take them seriously.
If there's not enough evidence that the birth certificate issue is racially motivated, then I can't imagine what it would require for something to meet standard.
SC68Cal
Sep 19, 12:49 AM
im glad i bought just the other day, itll be within the 14 day return period. i know some people have said they are able to get the restocking fee waived. any tips on this?
I'm almost tempted if they come out with a Merom update. I purchased mine yesterday so I might be in the 14 day period. But, do I really feel like setting up all my stuff all over again? for a 10% increase in speed?
I'm almost tempted if they come out with a Merom update. I purchased mine yesterday so I might be in the 14 day period. But, do I really feel like setting up all my stuff all over again? for a 10% increase in speed?
BaldiMac
Apr 6, 04:02 PM
It seems nobody learned from Apple's iPhone debacle:
"Hahaha, look at Android they only ship 1/10 of iPhones!!!" - 12 months later: "Uh, ok, Android outsells iOS 3:1 but Apple only ships 1 phone!!!!"
Now with tablets:
"Hahaha, look at the Android tablets, they only ship 1/10 of iPads." - 12 months later: Well you know...
Or:
"Hahaha, iPods outsell everyone else 3 to 1" - 10 years later: iPods outsell everyone else 3 to 1.
Apple has had a market share over 50% in three significant markets: iPods, digital music downloads, and "media tablets." They still have over 50% in all of those markets. Heck, you can probably throw mobile device apps in their aw well. There's no reason to think iPads will play out the same as iPhones.
"Hahaha, look at Android they only ship 1/10 of iPhones!!!" - 12 months later: "Uh, ok, Android outsells iOS 3:1 but Apple only ships 1 phone!!!!"
Now with tablets:
"Hahaha, look at the Android tablets, they only ship 1/10 of iPads." - 12 months later: Well you know...
Or:
"Hahaha, iPods outsell everyone else 3 to 1" - 10 years later: iPods outsell everyone else 3 to 1.
Apple has had a market share over 50% in three significant markets: iPods, digital music downloads, and "media tablets." They still have over 50% in all of those markets. Heck, you can probably throw mobile device apps in their aw well. There's no reason to think iPads will play out the same as iPhones.
jkane08
Apr 5, 05:40 PM
Would be grand if all this hype was for iMovie. :)
iMovie just had a refresh... and that's consumer level.. this is a pro-market meetup..
extremely excited for new FCP though! it's well overdue
iMovie just had a refresh... and that's consumer level.. this is a pro-market meetup..
extremely excited for new FCP though! it's well overdue
SiliconAddict
Aug 6, 11:36 PM
I'm not a long time apple user, and don't know about the classic to OS X transition, but i do know that 2 service packs and bug fixes every month did nothing to XP, hence my move to OS X. So, ok i assumed that this will be the same case with vista, but considering the fact that (i think) concept viruses have already been written, and that microsoft really are up against the clock; i think that for at least the first year vista will be hellish.
After that, ok, maybe things will change, but it seems to me that this isn't the biggest upgrade ever (i'm an end user, and mainly use PC's for web-browsing and school work, so i haven't seen any major good things in vista) and microsoft have struggled to get it out. (sorry kinda off topic)
I've been using and supporting every version of Windows since 2.0 including Windows NT and 2003 server and while the casual user may not have noticed much difference between XP Pro, XP Pro SP1, and XP Pro SP2 but as someone who manages desktop/laptop images for corp distribution I can tell you right now there has been massive changes in the last 5 years but nothing that is visible from the surface either. Its the same as OS X. While you might not see it more and more of the graphics subsystem has been shifted from the CPU to the GPU with something like 99% of it on the GPU in Tiger.
After that, ok, maybe things will change, but it seems to me that this isn't the biggest upgrade ever (i'm an end user, and mainly use PC's for web-browsing and school work, so i haven't seen any major good things in vista) and microsoft have struggled to get it out. (sorry kinda off topic)
I've been using and supporting every version of Windows since 2.0 including Windows NT and 2003 server and while the casual user may not have noticed much difference between XP Pro, XP Pro SP1, and XP Pro SP2 but as someone who manages desktop/laptop images for corp distribution I can tell you right now there has been massive changes in the last 5 years but nothing that is visible from the surface either. Its the same as OS X. While you might not see it more and more of the graphics subsystem has been shifted from the CPU to the GPU with something like 99% of it on the GPU in Tiger.