chutch15
Sep 12, 03:12 PM
I just picked up the Belkin Grip Vue at BestBuy in Wilmington, DE. Very pleased.
firestarter
Mar 20, 10:27 PM
That's for apple to decide.
And for us to discuss. That's what a discussion forum is for.
I'll say it again: homeopathy is not directly harmful. Ex-gay therapy is.
Repetition doesn't make an argument.
Both can be ignored, both can cause harm if followed. Both masquerade as a 'cure' for something they cannot 'cure'.
Again: how is that directly harmful? Directly. Harmful.
Homeopathy, by advertising falsely and claiming efficacy which cannot be proven encourages people to avoid conventional life saving treatments. How is that not harmful?
Ex-gay is a false path away from the confident and supportive same sex relationship that a homosexual person should be seeking. Seems very analogous.
And for us to discuss. That's what a discussion forum is for.
I'll say it again: homeopathy is not directly harmful. Ex-gay therapy is.
Repetition doesn't make an argument.
Both can be ignored, both can cause harm if followed. Both masquerade as a 'cure' for something they cannot 'cure'.
Again: how is that directly harmful? Directly. Harmful.
Homeopathy, by advertising falsely and claiming efficacy which cannot be proven encourages people to avoid conventional life saving treatments. How is that not harmful?
Ex-gay is a false path away from the confident and supportive same sex relationship that a homosexual person should be seeking. Seems very analogous.
Yebubbleman
Apr 19, 01:40 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)
One step closer to a MBA refresh.
Seriously?! How long have you been waiting? Since last refresh?
Please...Please...Please...provide a pro graphics card option (FirePro or Quadro)
Keep dreaming. They couldn't even get a Radeon HD 5770, let alone a 5850. The best that could be done was a 5750 in the 27", and while it's not a terrible GPU, it's certainly nowhere near pro-level.
Not expecting a huge update here other than Sandy Bridge, Thunderbolt, and 6XXX series AMD graphics.
Lulz to that. It's not like those things weren't key to the Early 2011 MacBook Pros being as critically acclaimed as they are now.
Does this mean a Mini update is right behind it?
No. While Mac mini updates could be right around the corner, the two are on different release timelines and aren't always released at the same time. Essentially, it's irrelevant.
6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950!
For heavens sake give it a nice GPU!!!!!!!!:eek:
If the 5750 was the best that we got on the highest end model of current, then I'd be shocked if we got anything past 6770. We're definitely not getting cards that use up as much power as the iMac itself or require a second six-pin connector in the Desktop PCIe equivalent.
So, is this the fast iMac refresh in years?
Since July 2010; not even a full year really.
You misunderstood me friend...I meant an HD 6950 2GB (Desktop Card)
Yes, its a pipe dream...but cant a man dream:rolleyes:
Sure, but that doesn't mean it'll ever happen.
Ah yes, well a desktop card would be nice. And the 27" does have the room when compared to the 21". They could engineer it in there if they wanted to.
But yes, I share your dream.
How many of those machines have you seen naked? As in, without the glass or panel with bare innards in full view? My guess is not very many. They don't have the room to engineer a better video card in the 27". It's almost a wonder they even have the room for something like the Radeon HD 5750 in what they have now. It's not like they took the design of the 21.5", gave it a larger chasis and screen and suddenly had more room to play with. Even so, as it stands, both sizes of iMac get extraordinarily hot. Sure, the 5750 in the Mid-2010 27" model draws less heat than the 4850 in the Late-2009 27" model, but that difference is negligible and even with a 6 series GPU's improvement, I doubt the difference will be substantial enough to warrant THAT much more power relative to the 6 series' lineup.
So, no, they couldn't engineer THAT much better of a card if they wanted. Not without making the iMac thicker than it already is. But it's Apple, they never do.
One step closer to a MBA refresh.
Seriously?! How long have you been waiting? Since last refresh?
Please...Please...Please...provide a pro graphics card option (FirePro or Quadro)
Keep dreaming. They couldn't even get a Radeon HD 5770, let alone a 5850. The best that could be done was a 5750 in the 27", and while it's not a terrible GPU, it's certainly nowhere near pro-level.
Not expecting a huge update here other than Sandy Bridge, Thunderbolt, and 6XXX series AMD graphics.
Lulz to that. It's not like those things weren't key to the Early 2011 MacBook Pros being as critically acclaimed as they are now.
Does this mean a Mini update is right behind it?
No. While Mac mini updates could be right around the corner, the two are on different release timelines and aren't always released at the same time. Essentially, it's irrelevant.
6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950!
For heavens sake give it a nice GPU!!!!!!!!:eek:
If the 5750 was the best that we got on the highest end model of current, then I'd be shocked if we got anything past 6770. We're definitely not getting cards that use up as much power as the iMac itself or require a second six-pin connector in the Desktop PCIe equivalent.
So, is this the fast iMac refresh in years?
Since July 2010; not even a full year really.
You misunderstood me friend...I meant an HD 6950 2GB (Desktop Card)
Yes, its a pipe dream...but cant a man dream:rolleyes:
Sure, but that doesn't mean it'll ever happen.
Ah yes, well a desktop card would be nice. And the 27" does have the room when compared to the 21". They could engineer it in there if they wanted to.
But yes, I share your dream.
How many of those machines have you seen naked? As in, without the glass or panel with bare innards in full view? My guess is not very many. They don't have the room to engineer a better video card in the 27". It's almost a wonder they even have the room for something like the Radeon HD 5750 in what they have now. It's not like they took the design of the 21.5", gave it a larger chasis and screen and suddenly had more room to play with. Even so, as it stands, both sizes of iMac get extraordinarily hot. Sure, the 5750 in the Mid-2010 27" model draws less heat than the 4850 in the Late-2009 27" model, but that difference is negligible and even with a 6 series GPU's improvement, I doubt the difference will be substantial enough to warrant THAT much more power relative to the 6 series' lineup.
So, no, they couldn't engineer THAT much better of a card if they wanted. Not without making the iMac thicker than it already is. But it's Apple, they never do.
yukyuklee
Feb 25, 05:31 PM
Hey Veg,
Where did you get that lamp?
Where did you get that lamp?
guez
Aug 29, 11:04 AM
This is exactly what I predicted would happen when Apple went Intel. Now that Macs can be compared component for component with Wintel machines and new hardware is coming out every month, everyone is worked up about keeping up with latest thing at the best possible price and getting increasingly frustrated with Apple's unwillingness to create a product line with 10000 different machines that each compete with dollar for dollar and component for component with every other machine on the market. Meanwhile, we have people talking about $299 machines with DVD burners (AND Windows? I'd like to see THAT!).
If you're so concerned about keeping up with the Jones, just buy a Dell, already.
If you're so concerned about keeping up with the Jones, just buy a Dell, already.
AlphaDogg
Feb 25, 10:25 PM
I forgot to post my setup while I was on an airplane from DIA to LAX (Denver Int'l Airport to Los Angeles International Airport). I didn't get a chance to take a pic of my setup in the cabin that I was staying at. My setup in the cabin was basically: I plugged my MB into my Belkin surge protector/dual USB adapter.
It looks like this:
http://www.coolgadgets.org/Mar08/belkin_surge_protector_USB_charger.jpg
I had my iPhone plugged into it, and my friends who were staying in the cabin would switch off who used the other port to charge their iPods. A couple of my friends used the AC outlets on the surge protector to charge their cell phones.
I would leave my MB plugged in during the day, alternating between two batteries (one battery one day, the other battery the next day). The only chance that I got to use my MB was at night, after we did all of our activities (hiking, bowling, night hiking, going out to eat on Pico Blvd, etc...), so I would just grab the MB from the charger, bring it to my bed, and watch a movie or TV show on iTunes. I would leave it by my bed when I was finished with it, and plug it in in the morning. I had my iPhone jailbroken (still is) with MyWi, expecting to be streaming video, skyping, etc... But the ATT coverage map lied to me. Stupid hills in Simi Valley. :mad:
But it was a very nice break from the internet.
Pic of my airplane setup (I was watching one of the Back to the Future movies):
http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx1/igesundheit/photo-11.jpg
I hadn't used the MB for so long. I missed using my MBP's spacious trackpad :(. I brought the MB because I didn't want the MBP to get broken.
Btw, it was a class trip at my Jewish school (hence the going out to dinner on Pico Blvd). The kosher food in LA is AMAZING!!
It looks like this:
http://www.coolgadgets.org/Mar08/belkin_surge_protector_USB_charger.jpg
I had my iPhone plugged into it, and my friends who were staying in the cabin would switch off who used the other port to charge their iPods. A couple of my friends used the AC outlets on the surge protector to charge their cell phones.
I would leave my MB plugged in during the day, alternating between two batteries (one battery one day, the other battery the next day). The only chance that I got to use my MB was at night, after we did all of our activities (hiking, bowling, night hiking, going out to eat on Pico Blvd, etc...), so I would just grab the MB from the charger, bring it to my bed, and watch a movie or TV show on iTunes. I would leave it by my bed when I was finished with it, and plug it in in the morning. I had my iPhone jailbroken (still is) with MyWi, expecting to be streaming video, skyping, etc... But the ATT coverage map lied to me. Stupid hills in Simi Valley. :mad:
But it was a very nice break from the internet.
Pic of my airplane setup (I was watching one of the Back to the Future movies):
http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx1/igesundheit/photo-11.jpg
I hadn't used the MB for so long. I missed using my MBP's spacious trackpad :(. I brought the MB because I didn't want the MBP to get broken.
Btw, it was a class trip at my Jewish school (hence the going out to dinner on Pico Blvd). The kosher food in LA is AMAZING!!
OdduWon
Nov 29, 01:44 PM
Maybe you can do video iChat sessions with an optional iSight camera right from the livingroom TV?
This reminds me of the old Zenith TVs with space phones where you could talk to a caller from the comfort of your sofa. (but voices usually sounded like it was underwater).
yeah, they will have a camera built in so they can film the new ipod commercials using us unsuspecting living room dancers as the subject:D
This reminds me of the old Zenith TVs with space phones where you could talk to a caller from the comfort of your sofa. (but voices usually sounded like it was underwater).
yeah, they will have a camera built in so they can film the new ipod commercials using us unsuspecting living room dancers as the subject:D
szark
Aug 6, 11:15 PM
you know everyone's going mac nuts when it says "update: photo of cloth covered banners".... :)
Or when there are multiple threads analyzing a photograph of a banner with dozens of icons on it, and nobody notices the photo also shows (the same) two covered banners. :)
Or when there are multiple threads analyzing a photograph of a banner with dozens of icons on it, and nobody notices the photo also shows (the same) two covered banners. :)
Riemann Zeta
Apr 2, 01:32 PM
As far as I know, Snow Leopard "fixed" what Leopard started. Mac OS X Lion is a completely new OS with new features, most of which are not present in Snow Leopard.
haha, no chance. Tons of new features here. I can see Apple charging less than $129 if they go the App Store route, but if boxed retail is released I'm sure it'll be $129.
Snow Leopard was a bigger upgrade than most people assumed--but only in an under-the-hood sense. The switch to a real 64bit system (with pure x64 kernel and extensions) was a big deal, albeit an invisible one. All the system core revisions, a 64bit finder and a $29 price made Snow Leopard a worthwhile update.
As for all these "tons" of new features that would make Lion worth $129: I just don't see it. Smaller window controls, iOS buttons and scrollbars and a few other iOS-derived tweaks and features just don't seem like that massive of an upgrade. Auto-saving, application 'resuming' and iOS-like state-suspention don't make a whole lot of sense for a desktop OS (perhaps if a machine is all SSD-based, with no physical discs, these features will allow Apple to eliminate swap/VM). So all-in-all, Lion feels a whole lot like Snow Leopard: a collection of refinements and nice, subtle improvements.
haha, no chance. Tons of new features here. I can see Apple charging less than $129 if they go the App Store route, but if boxed retail is released I'm sure it'll be $129.
Snow Leopard was a bigger upgrade than most people assumed--but only in an under-the-hood sense. The switch to a real 64bit system (with pure x64 kernel and extensions) was a big deal, albeit an invisible one. All the system core revisions, a 64bit finder and a $29 price made Snow Leopard a worthwhile update.
As for all these "tons" of new features that would make Lion worth $129: I just don't see it. Smaller window controls, iOS buttons and scrollbars and a few other iOS-derived tweaks and features just don't seem like that massive of an upgrade. Auto-saving, application 'resuming' and iOS-like state-suspention don't make a whole lot of sense for a desktop OS (perhaps if a machine is all SSD-based, with no physical discs, these features will allow Apple to eliminate swap/VM). So all-in-all, Lion feels a whole lot like Snow Leopard: a collection of refinements and nice, subtle improvements.
Bromac
Sep 27, 11:05 AM
I donot know what i can say
Get the 4. It's awsome!!!!!Everybody gets a cover for there iphone anyways. You will not be disappointed.
Get the 4. It's awsome!!!!!Everybody gets a cover for there iphone anyways. You will not be disappointed.
bilbo--baggins
Jun 23, 02:26 PM
I like the iPad but I still feel more at home with the Mac. Maybe that will change, over time using the iPad may feel more natural and so perhaps over time there will be a gradual transition.
However, like most people here, I think this will be over a number of years, not in the near future. I've sometimes wondered what Apple might have up their sleeves for OS XI. Maybe that will mark more of a hybrid between OS X and iOS, but that's probably looking 5-10 years ahead.
However, like most people here, I think this will be over a number of years, not in the near future. I've sometimes wondered what Apple might have up their sleeves for OS XI. Maybe that will mark more of a hybrid between OS X and iOS, but that's probably looking 5-10 years ahead.
iphone3gs16gb
Mar 22, 10:22 AM
lmao!
"gay cure app"
now this is gold right there
"gay cure app"
now this is gold right there
Yvan256
Apr 3, 09:07 AM
"Technology gets out of the way"
That's why I got a Mac/iPhone in the first place. Get out of my way, Windows/Android!
That's what happened to me years ago, but with iTunes. I was using iTunes on Windows XP and instead of fighting it to organize my files, I finally said to myself "why would I want to manage my files manually"? Then I started using metadata and smart playlists... a few months later I bought a Mac mini G4 which was less powerful than my PC, but then a few weeks later I realized I hadn't booted the PC in over a week. I moved all my data and sold the PC.
I'm now on my 3rd Mac mini (2010 unibody) with 8GB of RAM and it does the tasks I ask without getting in my way. :cool:
That's why I got a Mac/iPhone in the first place. Get out of my way, Windows/Android!
That's what happened to me years ago, but with iTunes. I was using iTunes on Windows XP and instead of fighting it to organize my files, I finally said to myself "why would I want to manage my files manually"? Then I started using metadata and smart playlists... a few months later I bought a Mac mini G4 which was less powerful than my PC, but then a few weeks later I realized I hadn't booted the PC in over a week. I moved all my data and sold the PC.
I'm now on my 3rd Mac mini (2010 unibody) with 8GB of RAM and it does the tasks I ask without getting in my way. :cool:
apb3
Aug 18, 07:42 PM
I wish they would make wireless ipods soon. But I just dont think that it's gonna happen.
You can guess my feelings on this from the above discusssion but why do you want the wireless? I have seen one (maybe two) ideas that caught my eye; but not enough too change my opinion on the negative cost/benefit impact including wireless as envisioned by many here would have on my beloved device. I'm just curious as to your possible ideas or is it just cuz wireless is the latest buzzword - regardless whether it is actually useful, beneficial, effective, having a positive impact on the device in question?
So, why do you "...wish that they would make wireless iPods soon,"? What would you like to see in particular, why and how would it work technically?
I know I'm new here and I must seem a negative ass, but I just don't get why many of you would want this, let alone be frothing at the mouth. Do you not see the negatives (or, if not "negatives," at least the redundancy, bloat, PR Hype to get a few extra bucks out of you for something IMO not really worth it, etc? See my voluminous comments above). I really do love apple and it's all I really use when posible in my line of work (that must sound like the "I have black friends," line but it's true in this case). When I'm home, I won't even allow my wife's lab PC to sound the startup/shutdown chime. It's muted or it goes out the window...:D
I've even made inroads with one of the most resistant to change institutions as noted above and an SOB CO who at first laughed at apple then nearly shite himself when I presented a REAL analysis of apple's price/security/abilities/etc benefits vs the crap PCs we're forced to use backed up by my real world work product that he had praised to no end, had officially commmended me for in the past and had no clue the praise was due to the fact that I was skirting the current sec reqs by using my own machines and apps (apple) to blow him and others away at briefings.
Anyway, would you mind sharing why you want it so bad as I asked above?
You can guess my feelings on this from the above discusssion but why do you want the wireless? I have seen one (maybe two) ideas that caught my eye; but not enough too change my opinion on the negative cost/benefit impact including wireless as envisioned by many here would have on my beloved device. I'm just curious as to your possible ideas or is it just cuz wireless is the latest buzzword - regardless whether it is actually useful, beneficial, effective, having a positive impact on the device in question?
So, why do you "...wish that they would make wireless iPods soon,"? What would you like to see in particular, why and how would it work technically?
I know I'm new here and I must seem a negative ass, but I just don't get why many of you would want this, let alone be frothing at the mouth. Do you not see the negatives (or, if not "negatives," at least the redundancy, bloat, PR Hype to get a few extra bucks out of you for something IMO not really worth it, etc? See my voluminous comments above). I really do love apple and it's all I really use when posible in my line of work (that must sound like the "I have black friends," line but it's true in this case). When I'm home, I won't even allow my wife's lab PC to sound the startup/shutdown chime. It's muted or it goes out the window...:D
I've even made inroads with one of the most resistant to change institutions as noted above and an SOB CO who at first laughed at apple then nearly shite himself when I presented a REAL analysis of apple's price/security/abilities/etc benefits vs the crap PCs we're forced to use backed up by my real world work product that he had praised to no end, had officially commmended me for in the past and had no clue the praise was due to the fact that I was skirting the current sec reqs by using my own machines and apps (apple) to blow him and others away at briefings.
Anyway, would you mind sharing why you want it so bad as I asked above?
deputy_doofy
Sep 6, 09:07 AM
Maybe i am alone on this one....
I think the 24" iMac G5 is the beginning of the end of the G5 iMac. We all watched as the outstanding G4 iMac grew from a 15" to a 17" and finally to 20". While the stunning design remained the same, the 20" just didn't look as good as the 2 previous models. The proportions were wrong and it looked top-heavy.
I am sitting in front of an original 23" Apple Display (plastic rather than aluminium). The new iMac cannot be much smaller than it. I firmly believe that the 24" will be, and should be, as big as it gets. I just hope that heat doesn't become a problem with the Core 2 Duo chips else the G5 iMac may have to evolve into a new enclosure.
Anyone else have thoughts similar?
I don't know whether you're right or wrong about a possible design change in the near future, but your terminology is wrong.
The G5 iMac is not a model. The G5 is a CPU. The iMac has not been a "G5" (or, to be more correct, has not had a G5) since January.
It's just "iMac." A G5 with a Core 2 Duo chip is like spouting off how you have a great "Intel Pentium Athlon machine made by AMD." People will see right through the ignorance.
I think the 24" iMac G5 is the beginning of the end of the G5 iMac. We all watched as the outstanding G4 iMac grew from a 15" to a 17" and finally to 20". While the stunning design remained the same, the 20" just didn't look as good as the 2 previous models. The proportions were wrong and it looked top-heavy.
I am sitting in front of an original 23" Apple Display (plastic rather than aluminium). The new iMac cannot be much smaller than it. I firmly believe that the 24" will be, and should be, as big as it gets. I just hope that heat doesn't become a problem with the Core 2 Duo chips else the G5 iMac may have to evolve into a new enclosure.
Anyone else have thoughts similar?
I don't know whether you're right or wrong about a possible design change in the near future, but your terminology is wrong.
The G5 iMac is not a model. The G5 is a CPU. The iMac has not been a "G5" (or, to be more correct, has not had a G5) since January.
It's just "iMac." A G5 with a Core 2 Duo chip is like spouting off how you have a great "Intel Pentium Athlon machine made by AMD." People will see right through the ignorance.
whatsleep
Jan 4, 12:12 PM
Here are the things I expect to happen:
%IMG_DESC_17%
%IMG_DESC_18%
%IMG_DESC_19%
islanders
Dec 28, 01:20 AM
I wouldn't hold my breath on the word processing and web surfing. WebTV showed surfing the internet on a TV sucked because trying to read normal-sized text from six feet away was hard, and bumping the text size up would goof up the page layout generally. Same reason word processing would be silly.
Here is your quote SeaFox.
You are an condescending individual and take my post out of context.
Here is your quote SeaFox.
You are an condescending individual and take my post out of context.
bobsentell
May 2, 04:53 PM
I wonder if this means MacOS will end up with iOS-style "multi-tasking."
Bregalad
Apr 20, 01:10 PM
what's the first letter in imac?
An all-in-one computer is just another consumer device. Bring on the Mac Pros
Intel won't have new Mac Pro CPUs available until fall. It's a strange way to run a company actually. Release the consumer stuff first and wait most of the year to give the pros something that beats the consumer stuff. Then a couple months later release new consumer stuff that matches the vastly more expensive pro stuff. Seems backward to everyone except Intel.
I think that's one of the reasons why Apple has held off with the iMac upgrade. They wanted the MacBook Pro to be ahead for a few months because it's a "pro" model line.
To the person who claimed iMac was held back because of the chipset defect, they obviously haven't counted the high speed SATA channels correctly. The 27" iMac only uses two (SSD and HD). A slot loading optical drive is pretty much the slowest device you can put in a computer these days and can be run off any crap bus.
An all-in-one computer is just another consumer device. Bring on the Mac Pros
Intel won't have new Mac Pro CPUs available until fall. It's a strange way to run a company actually. Release the consumer stuff first and wait most of the year to give the pros something that beats the consumer stuff. Then a couple months later release new consumer stuff that matches the vastly more expensive pro stuff. Seems backward to everyone except Intel.
I think that's one of the reasons why Apple has held off with the iMac upgrade. They wanted the MacBook Pro to be ahead for a few months because it's a "pro" model line.
To the person who claimed iMac was held back because of the chipset defect, they obviously haven't counted the high speed SATA channels correctly. The 27" iMac only uses two (SSD and HD). A slot loading optical drive is pretty much the slowest device you can put in a computer these days and can be run off any crap bus.
wms121
Nov 21, 09:58 AM
Mercury can get you a cell plug-in for the PCI slot:
http://www.mc.com/cell/products/view/index.cfm?id=106&type=boards
Lessee....179 GFLOPS. Can't link it in tandem with IBM Blades, just Mercury
Cell's..hmmm*.
..where is my binary calculator?
WW
*{..found this stuff later:
http://www.mc.com/cell/products/view/index.cfm?id=106&type=boards
Lessee....179 GFLOPS. Can't link it in tandem with IBM Blades, just Mercury
Cell's..hmmm*.
..where is my binary calculator?
WW
*{..found this stuff later:
4np
Sep 6, 08:46 AM
Hmm... the Mini still has no Core 2 Duo? That does not sound too promising for MacBook (Pro) updates... unless Apple only wants to use the Core 2 Duo for the high end laptops (MacBook Pro) of course... Or are they waiting untill Leopard has been released?
Skb3735
Apr 2, 08:33 PM
Keep up that attitude and continue wondering why no one talks with you as you type on your laptop in the middle of the coffee shop across from De Anza college. Sure, you may have helped get DB2 started and you still work in a DOS window but don't blame your wife for leaving you as you worked late at night too long. How much of the money from the IPO went to family attorney and court fees?
Wow that's a little extreme
Wow that's a little extreme
BJB Productions
Apr 12, 09:49 PM
Not judging from the crowd's reaction :eek:
There's no video, but from the audio, these pros sound like kids in a candy store.
I know! I had to stop listening because I want to SEE it.
There's no video, but from the audio, these pros sound like kids in a candy store.
I know! I had to stop listening because I want to SEE it.
czardmitri
Nov 28, 02:16 PM
one of the key differences between the xbox and zune. is that microsoft only had to contend with 2 other players in the video game indistry. the ipod maybe top. but there are hundred of other companies to battle first just to reach second place. and also phone companies. spending money maynot help them like in the case of the xbox.
The main difference (as I understand it) is that MS can at least attempt to make up for their losses on the sales of xBoxes from the games that are licensed for xBox. They can't do the same with music for the money they're losing on each Zune sold. Apple's margin on music is slim; they make money on the iPods.
The main difference (as I understand it) is that MS can at least attempt to make up for their losses on the sales of xBoxes from the games that are licensed for xBox. They can't do the same with music for the money they're losing on each Zune sold. Apple's margin on music is slim; they make money on the iPods.